World Series of Poker and Interviewing

Send to Kindle

Poker Hand RankingLast year during the World Series of Poker, there was a gentleman who made it to the final table and was the first person to lose. He came in 9th place. This year the same gentleman made it to the final table where he tweeted to his network “Not going to get 9th place again.” Guess what happened? He got 9th place again. By the way, the chances of a person getting 9th 2 years in a row at the World Series of Poker is 1 in 42 million.

Many of my clients will call me and say that they aren’t getting the right candidates to the table. I ask them to tell me what their job ad says. I am always a little taken aback by the negative language that people use, like “If you can’t be on time, don’t apply.” I guarantee that when candidates read that line, they see “if you can’t be on time, APPLY.” And they do!

If you truly want to transform the candidate pool, change your language, starting with the job ad. Begin by asking for what you want, not what you don’t. Then share your mission statement and talk about WHY you are in the business you are in. Simon Sinek wrote a book and shared a TED talk called Start With Why that describes fierce loyalty and invested interest when people understand why you do business. Write about the people that you help and how the position will impact them. Describe the position and how it will contribute to the organization, your staff and your clients. If you want to win the game of staffing, then ask for the A-list candidates that you desire and leave 9th place in the dust! I’m ALL IN! Are you?

People on Paper Are Not People in Person

Send to Kindle

The single most beautiful resume I have ever seen was written by a woman who stood up at the end of the interview and screamed at my 7 person interview team while banging her fist on the table “I AM NOT FINISHED TELLING YOU ABOUT MYSELF!!!” We had her escorted off the property by security.

People on PaperThe system of screening candidates is backwards…we spend time within the application process by meticulously reviewing resumes when we are really better off spending our time in the interviewing process. Why don’t we? Our culture has told us we can effectively screen people by reading resumes. You cannot. A resume is simply a marketing piece for the candidate. If a sales person brought you a brochure, you would read the fine print. You would ask yourself “What is the catch?” If interested, you would call the salesperson and ask questions, but you wouldn’t take the marketing piece at face value. So why do we in screening resumes?

People on paper aren’t the same as people in person. Randy Smith, A-list Interviews Resume Reviewer Extraordinaire and head to our XLR8 Application Services, says that the better someone looks on paper, the worse they are in person. And you know what? He’s right.

If you have ever worked with me in finding your next A-list employee, you went in blind to an interview without looking at resumes of the candidates you are interviewing. My clients have said that not looking at resumes before an interview actually let them focus on the person in front of them. They listen to the candidate, and the candidate gets a more genuine experience with the company.

My best advice is to spend your time interviewing, not reviewing resumes in order to find your next best employee. You will be amazed at the difference it makes in finding the ideal person for the job.

Rebuttal – How to Spot a Resume of a Psychopath

Send to Kindle

strategist-clipart-icon_resumeI am sometimes astounded by the amount of misinformation available about how to conduct a good interview and spot an ideal candidate. As I was reading an article by Kathryn Tuggle on “How to Spot a resume of a Psychopath Applying to Work with You”, I was stunned by the outdated ideas were presented as benchmarks when determining your next employee. Many of her ideas could actually cause you to miss out on a great candidate with the first problem beginning with the title of the article.

First of all, NO ONE can spot a psychopath be reading their resume. As a matter of fact, you can’t find a great candidate at all by reading their resume. People on paper are not the same as they are in person. A complete measure of an individual candidate can only occur when you meet face to face.

Second of all, the article continues to pose that a candidate that you are hiring with work “with” you; you are hiring a person to work “for” you. There is an enormous difference in looking for a partner to work “with” and an employee who will work “for” you.

Then, there is the myth of job hopping. The idea that job hopping is a negative is one that we should stop measuring our candidates by. The concept should have gone out with the 50’s notion that we should work for one company until you retire. We have discovered having the same position for decades that lingers on and on (like a bad hangover) actually reduces our productivity. Research shows that people who job hop every 2-3 years are actually more successful. Ms. Tuggle quoted a psychologist who says that psychopaths will job hop. Well so do people in their 20’s who haven’t settled down yet. As well as those that realize opportunities may exist more quickly with other companies than a current position may hold.  It doesn’t mean that they are a bad hire. In addition, I greatly appreciate a person who leaves a job because they know it isn’t a good fit versus one who will stay just to be able to put 2 years on a resume. Neither of these situations is a win-win for the employee and the employer. Also, Dr. Greenberg makes the assumption that someone who leaves before a year “can’t hold down a job.” What if they had to move home to take care of an aging parent? What if their military spouse got transferred to another state? You NEVER know why someone left a job and to assume that they left because they are a psychopath is dangerous and judgmental.

Dr. Greenberg continues to express a concern and assumption that clear sign of a psychopath is that they are unable to be quiet in an interview. Being a talker doesn’t mean your candidate is a psychopath. In a well run interview, the candidate should be talking most of the time and about themselves. They should be letting you know how they can help you, which is not the same as them “blowing their horn for an hour” as referred to in the article.

One point that was brought up that I may agree with a bit is when you hear a candidate blaming their boss for not getting promoted. This could be a clear sign that the candidate isn’t taking ownership for their part in the last position not working out. But again, that doesn’t make the candidate a psychopath. It could just mean that the candidate hasn’t worked out their issues with the last position. An experienced interviewer will be able to glean enough information from that person to decide if the issues are big enough to warrant not making a job offer.

The last point that Dr. Greenberg makes is that a candidate who compliments you on your office décor is a manipulator. Not necessarily true. They may be trying to break the ice. The discomfort of the interview process, especially for the candidate, is like no other we experience. If the compliment feels insincere or “slimy” certainly pay attention. However not all people who compliment the interviewer are manipulators.

Articles like these are dangerous. They make broad, sweeping arguments that a particular behavior is bad and that the person exhibiting the behavior is bad. I have successful exceptions to every one of these so called “psychopathic behaviors”. Dr. Greenberg needs to stick to therapy and stay out of interviewing or our work force will be completed misplaced.

Flip Flops and Hiring

Send to Kindle

flipsLast summer when we were at the beach, my daughter left our condo and forgot her key. My husband threw on some flip flops, and ran out the door to catch up to her in order to give her the key. He got on the elevator, looked down and realized that he had one black flip flop on and one blue flip flop on… it was so funny!

What isn’t funny is when you rush through the hiring process, and you get a person who just doesn’t match your company’s culture. What is painful is when you know on someone’s first day that they just aren’t going to work out to your satisfaction. What doesn’t sit well is when you need one type of shoe, but you put on another.

There is a saying out there “Hire slow and Fire fast”, but nobody does that. We are in too much of a hurry to put a butt in a seat. We think the world will end if we don’t hire someone by the end week. Really though, what counts is making sure that your flip flops match and that you don’t put someone in a position for which they aren’t trained, aren’t passionate about, or don’t like.

Next time you hire someone, check in the mirror one last time and ensure that your flip flops match. You won’t be sorry that you took your time.

The Nose Knows

Send to Kindle

snoutAs animal fosters, our job is to bring dogs into our home and get them ready for their new forever home by loving them, feeding them, and playing with them. It is such a fulfilling and satisfying way that our family gives back. Other people view fostering differently. There was one woman who wanted to volunteer. She stated up front that she would “only foster dogs with a certain snout”, and currently she has never fostered a dog.

I have some people that want to discuss their hiring with me, who present similar requests. They will only work with people who attended a certain university. They will only hire people with a certain GPA. They will only have staff members who are members of certain organizations. And to what avail?

The organization that we foster through has a policy that they do not discriminate against people who want a dog. You don’t have to have a white picket fence and a doggy door to adopt a dog; you just have to provide a loving home. At A-list, we also do not discriminate against candidates – you just have to want to hire the best fit possible or you have to BE the best fit for the job.

The ultimate irony is that I have hired people from 16-85 years of age, each different types of people from varying backgrounds, because we focus on 3 things: working well with others, ability to do the job and passion for the job. Nothing else matters.

And the volunteer who wants only dogs with certain snouts? She probably won’t foster. The employers who wanted certain GPA’s? Statistically, they won’t be happy with their hire. And, I don’t work with people who want certain noses. I work with clients who want to have the best person on their staff and are willing to look past noses in order to find them, because it works.

Making Margaritas

Send to Kindle

margsWhen I owned my restaurant, we would have really busy times, and in those busy times, I would jump behind the counter and help my staff serve our customers. I was notorious for making margaritas by the bucket. I would go into the basement, get out the tequila, lime juice, triple sec, and apple juice (our secret ingredient) and literally create buckets of margaritas to serve with our amazing enchiladas and nachos.

While my staff was thrilled to have me help them get our customers served as quickly as possible, it was a short term fix to a much larger issue. When we would get hit with a rush of people, as the owner of the company, my time was NOT best served by helping out my staff in the moment… my time was best served by getting more staff on the floor in order to help the customers get their orders. In other words, I needed to focus on the bigger picture… why we were short staffed at all in that moment.

Three years into owning the restaurant, I quit making margaritas. I refused to step back behind the bar to help, but instead I would begin calling to get more people on the floor. When I hired a general manager, it became his job to make those calls, and my job was to make sure that we had enough staff trained and ready to go for the busy times.

I see this all the time with my clients. They spend their time doing the extra work when they should be spending time looking at the business as a whole. In other words, make your margaritas on Saturday, and focus on your whole business during the week.


A “Normal” Interview at Starbuck’s

Send to Kindle

imagesI love it when an opportunity presents itself to listen in on a “normal” interview. Arriving early for an appointment at a Starbuck’s in the Denver area, I was enjoying an amazing cup of black tea as the store manager began interviewing for a potential staff member. As effective interviewing is my passion, I was fascinated by the exchange I observed.

First, the candidate entered the Starbucks as I did at 12:45. She sat nervously waiting for 15 minutes to begin the interview for her next potential position. While the manager did begin the interview at exactly 1:00 (kudos to her) a huge opportunity to set up the candidate for immediate success was missed. An A-list candidate will ALWAYS be 15 minutes early for an interview, especially for a position they are really interested in. If the interviewer actually leaves them waiting for 15 minutes, the candidate only becomes more nervous, thus increasing the chances to blow the interview.

Second, the manager talked for the entire interview, occasionally glancing at the resume of the candidate. The candidate very dutifully nodded her head (she will need a massage after this!) and laughed at all the manager’s jokes. In a truly effective interview, the hiring manager should be engaging in active listening, rather than explaining the position and requirements. If the manager is talking rather than asking questions, the candidate does not have the chance to share skills, abilities, and personality with the manager. By not listening, the manager really has very little knowledge about the applicant or how they can truly contribute to the team.

Third, the manager got up and left the table twice to handle other issues and the candidate was left sitting by herself. Now I realize life can be full of interruptions. However, during an interview, the only focus should be around the task at hand: assessing the skill set and cultural fit of the potential new employee. Continuous interruptions reduce the hiring manager’s ability to determine fit and the candidate’s confidence about the job environment.

Fourth, the manager interviewed this woman in front of an audience of roughly 10 people waiting for their coffee drinks. The interview lasted 42 minutes. So for 42 minutes this candidate was not only vulnerable and exposed to a hiring manager, but to an entire audience of people. Don’t hold interviews in public, high traffic areas. Respect is a cornerstone for any great relationship and public interviews are very disrespectful.

Last, but certainly not least, the manager discussed the highpoints of the candidate with another worker behind the counter, again in front of an audience. Do I really need to point out how disrespectful this is?

After my observances, I realized that this is a perfect example of a “normal” interview, meaning that most people conduct interviews just like this and wonder why they can’t hire good people. I honestly do not believe this hiring manager was even aware of her interviewing style and its ineffectiveness towards hiring a great employee. My big question is this: Was this manager really ever taught how to conduct an interview? Did she feel supported through the process, so that she could be successful in her hiring decisions? Did she really have the tools and environment needed to be successful in her decision making process?

Employers who truly desire amazing staff need to support their hiring managers by teaching them how to interview. Give them the proper tools to find the next generation of A-list employees needed to grow the business.  This is the gift that keeps on giving.

“Eds and Ongs”

Send to Kindle

When my poor clients have to hire someone, they have what I call the “Eds”:

“The interview I dread

My feet feel like lead

I want to go to bed and

Pull the covers over my head.”

Well, when you bring that type of energy to the interview process, guess what type of person you are going to hire? An “ed”.

My job is to get my clients to the “Ongs”:

“I feel powerful and strong

Even when the process is long

That I will find the one

That truly belongs.”

Are you ready for an “ong”? Then, you are singing my song!

Going Blind

Send to Kindle

blindfoldedMy daughter once made a Christmas present for me that she didn’t want me to see. She had me bend down and she covered my eyes with her little hands. We stumbled along until we got to her room, and she pulled her hands away. My surprise was a diorama of Christmas at the Smith house, complete with the tree, presents, the stockings by the fireplace and my kid walking in on Santa going up the chimney. It is the cutest thing, and the detail was something that I never would have expected. It sits out on our bookshelf all year round, and I still remember covering my eyes and going blind in that great surprise.

When I begin working with a new client, I ask them to do something that they have never done before: I ask them to go into an interview with a candidate blind. Don’t read the resume. My client will know the candidate’s first name and that is it.  Why? Because reading the resume before you meet the candidate gives you the ability to pre-judge. It feeds into our prejudices, and when you read a resume, you miss the surprise.

At A-list, we have a person in charge of screening resumes, and he is amazing at it! He developed a process for screening quickly and effectively, all the while, allowing my clients to be surprised by what the candidate brings to the table and checking their prejudices at the door. This process allows for more diversity, more ideas and more creativity in a company.

Next time you hire someone, have someone else screen for you. Don’t look at the resumes: be surprised by going blind into your next interview.

Waterfall of Treats

Send to Kindle

boneAs most of you know, we foster dogs through a wonderful organization called PawsCo. Our job as fosters is to transition the dog from a shelter environment, an unfit home or an otherwise bad situation. Our last dog was an adorable little dachshund mix with a blond scruffy coat. She is a lap dog in the house, sweet and gentle, but outside? She turns into Devil Dog. She growls at cyclists, cars wheelchairs and strollers. She is aggressive and threatening when she is surprised by an oncoming object.

At PawsCo, we have access to a wonderful trainer named Megan Hill, who helped us train Chloe by what she calls a “waterfall of treats”. Being outside is very anxious for Chloe, because she was found on a highway wondering around. In order to survive, she had to be aggressive. Our job is to teach her that being outside is fun and safe. So, we go outside and start giving her treats for no reason…just for being outside. Then, we start tapering off, and give her treats any time that we see a car or anything else that makes her growl. All the while, we taper off the treats until she can walk outside without growling and feeling anxious.

The same process occurs when you bring a new employee into your organization. You don’t use treats, you use accessibility. Most of my clients think their job is over when we hire someone, but really, their job is just beginning. You have to teach your employee the job. NO ONE walks into a position and knows how to do it to your satisfaction without your guidance and input. Be available, be accessible, and check on your new employee often. As they become more confident in their role, then you can back off. Simply stick your head in their office and ask how they are. Ask how you can help. Ask what questions they have for you. Your commitment to their training will benefit you in ways that you can’t know right now, but in the future? You have just hired AND TRAINED your a-list candidate: the one that has your back and performs amazing things for you and your company.

As for Chloe, she got adopted last weekend by a wonderful couple in Evergreen. They go on walks with a lot of treats, while she is adapting well to her new environment and loving every minute of it.

And the Smiths are getting the house ready for our next beloved dog. Happy training!

One Day Interview Training Program!

What if your hiring decision was right 91% of the time? Through the A-list Interview Training Program, this statistic can be a reality. Learn more.

Learn how to attract the best candidates. Join our monthly newsletter and also receive our "Attract A-list Candidates" Guide.